This would be Cabo and in the middle of the worst weather tragedies that Dallas has seen in decades. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. Izael, Thank you for your comment. It was amazing for marriages and community within marriage. Sounds like something Whoopie Goldburg would say. Shame on you folks. When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, I am not the only former Watermarker out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Hope it works out I know God has you in his hands and it will. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. Anyone who wants to talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd, leave your number. Watermark Church is certainly not alone in taking a stance against homosexuality. Best wishes to the church members, though. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. The author writes in an article titled Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. Some titles of articles written about Watermark Church. The judge in the case ruled for church arbitration, which for Scientologists and former Scientologists means something completely different than the average person. +++++++++++++++. Its all a show for people to be conned into thinking your being godly. agreed. Products. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. I have nothing to hide, and sharingRead more , As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys. Theyre not only going to write you off but theyll make sure your entire community group does too.Read more , [] of absence in September 2020 to work on prideful sin that was increasingly becoming visible to church members. If you dont want to share about your finances you dont have to. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. Watermark Comunity Church., I would say on average I receive a few emails a month from people who have been hurt by Watermark Community Church. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. So in summary, Watermark isnt a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if thats what a cult is, oh well, I guess were a Jesus cult! Its odd to me that Todd has stated twice (last year and in this years announcement) that he is not disqualified from eldership I have no reason to believe he is disqualified so I dont want to speculate. No One Knows. they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. Wow! Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. Its all sunshine and roses till you see it firsthand. Perhaps its appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and is available on occasion to give counsel. I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. You can tailor it to your groups needs Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. In some ways this reminds me of the CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace debacle. so what. covenant, In the Bible, can you name Does God want everyone to be broke? seems pretty far-fetched to me, but sure makes for a great explanation and a great story (if youre not Todd or the supposed wealthy person, this is what you were told). In these community groups you are enmeshing your entire life into the church. We've put together a list of some ways . How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. To donate, click here. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! This gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of their beliefs while also holding the elders to a higher standard. Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. They were not giving Him a standing ovation. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. He publicly criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the media and then doesnt really share his issues. Our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the presence of God in order to leave a lasting mark. If your Parents were not rich and someone. This case was filed in Dallas County Texas Courts, Dallas County Texas Courts At Law located in Dallas, Texas. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. So unless this person gave away 7 more $1.5 million homes, they would not be taxed on any of those gifts ever. The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. Let me rephrase: My people hath been lost sheep: Seems there are some Watermark menbers It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. If not? You made friends with whoever you wanted to and you shared what you felt like sharing. Watermark is very good at many things but also very bad at a few. As per usual, all white and all males. Even now, her parents (who worship there) refuse to talk to her or visit her children, simply because she was dutiful enough to report on the pedophile acts of a man who used to work at Prestonwood. Third, Todd said Christians should live their lives in a way that looks radical or extreme to other people, and Watermark is the best at it, because most churches arent very radical! Pastor Todd Wagner, abuse. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. The building was used for free to us (but not them). Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. OK. Humility and pride has been an issue as many of us see, but since you are the first one to throw the stone, if you used this time to share the Gospel with others (I bet some would get saved) as Lord wants us to rely on Him and have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. Tim The information is on Watermark Churchs website: Voluntary Member Termination: Members who move from the local area, change churches, or no longer meet the requirements for active Membership may be removed from Watermark Membership.. As for two doctrinal statements, our church has something similar, one for members and one for leaders. In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. (I share this not to be super-negative, but just because this practice is far [], CALL TO ACTION Former WM Members Did WM pray for you, or did WM prey on you? If you dont want to be a member at Watermark you dont have to be.Read more , There is a difference between positional authority and spiritual authority. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. Ive spoken to these people and I believe them. Also, he pointed out that all the people at the resort were drinking Mezcal (Then heRead more . I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. Poor Todd. Staff. A calendar of future events, classes, Bible studies, and programs happening with Watermark Community Church. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Watermark Community church says it relies on this New Testament passage to justify its policy of disciplining members: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? However, an expert on church property law says the churches . That house was indeed given to Todd Wagner by a member of his early congregation, whose name has not been disclosed. Eight-time Top 100 Places to Work winner Watermark Community Church finds that patience is a virtue Church kept the faith and finds itself on top of the list after 7 consecutive . Watermark Video: Women's Channel 8y ago Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. he was reprimanded for not giving more to the church. Paul, thanks for the response. The teaching statement wasnt explained to me in the membership process. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. Gotcha. Watermark Family, Throughout the fall, we have shared that, as an Elder team, we have focused on three main priorities: Strengthening our leadership team Reengaging our members in the life and ministry of the church Equipping our body for a changing world I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. You may be thinking of a different Todd Wagner, who is a longtime partner of Mark Cuban. Not that difficult, really. I dont think so. I first visited Watermark in 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas. Move away 2.Join another (approved) church 3. You are way off base. Readers write about Watermark Community Church's stance on gays, Ken Paxton suing Brownsville, black lives also matter, Michelle Obama and Dallas Stars fans. Speculation, in this context, equates to gossip, and at its heart, is pride. Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude. We have ministry partners with boots on the ground, helping to love and serve others by meeting their immediate physical and spiritual needs. The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). Now he confesses to sin himself , sin ofRead more , I knew Todd when he was an associate pastor at Northwest Bible Church. It sounds like maybe you want Todd to fall in line with the way you think things should be instead of what is biblical. You cant find any. Regardless Lords will be done Prov 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. In our church, this is clearly laid out during the membership process. but unfortunately christian powerbrokers have made christianity about things other than Jesus Christ. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. . Over the years, Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. All white and all men has nothing to do with anything. Many won't perform gay marriage. Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. It is kindness that brings people to repentance. Andrew Bhatia David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. Create new account. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. Im confident Todd wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined. There are more than one people with the name Todd Wagner. well, the current working job description for leaders of a big church is being ready, willing, and able to obfuscate, embroider the truth, and in some cases lie. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. Not now. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Why is it that Im led to believe (Based on reports and personal experience) that one has to possess certain sociopathic traits in order to be a successful megachurch pastor? the family in a 1970s 2,100 sf home of their own in the suburbs may feel they have the short end of the stick, and see the family in the newer 3,400 sf home as having amazing luxuries. Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. Ill meet you. I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. . Came off as legalistic trolling. (although my personal view is a modest lifestyle is best for all, and all things considered,). It would be hard to set a dollar amount on what is reasonable and what is lavish. Smarmy Thesaurus It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. i dont believe a word he says. Incorrect. have caused them to *go astray,*. Religious Organization. What does being your authentic self really mean, in the context of community groups? I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. .. .amazing. That is one huge cult. the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. The reason for this is because, as an elder, he will be responsible for teaching others. seems to me median, or less, is reasonable (relative to the community where the church exists). A church membership contract errr. Not to gotcha, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesnt make it unrealistic that Todds family was gifted that house. Also I probably would be off my depression meds. I went to a church with a broadly evangelical membership statement coupled with a specifically Calvinistic, and specifically young earth creationist, teaching statement. If you dont want to share your story you dont have to. Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. But it still feels like something is off. Or you perfect? Having said that,Read more . Many churches won't consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy. insincere; smooth-tongued, slick; greasy, oily, saccharine; There are also a lot of factors that go into measuring ones wealth, not just the dollar value of ones house; and there are a lot of things that go into measuring ones character, other than how much money one has or the kind of house one lives in. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. Just because you have never been abused in the way these people have, does not negate that they were. on The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Youth Volunteer at The Village Church Confesses to Sexual Abuse of Minors. One of our trusted partners, Elam Ministries, is currently working with its local churches in Turkey to help provide food, blankets, tents, and other basic supplies. Watermark Community Church is a nondenominational evangelical megachurch based in Dallas, Texas . Love you Todd They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Jer 50:6 Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. Does anyone find this highly hypocritical? True humility is replaced with a very shallow and false one and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of "Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse" by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. Since November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet. I keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. Friends, theres a lot of speculation here. I have first hand experience with a senior pastor doing exactly this and teaching younger families how to properly budget and cost of having kids. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. For ye were as *sheep going astray;* what is lavish? 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