And not many have truly repented I think. Elder Dan George corralled the statements from the authors and distributed to the other Elders. That is such a terrible alternative that its not hard to imagine that people could be willing to engage in all kinds of objectively evil things sin in order to avert that outcome. The price has been paid, sin and death vanquished, and all may come to the Son for meat and drink with no money and no payment. Human nature, I guess. Thus, I try to insert IMO where applicable. Rich: And I think (as an atheist heathen) that what people really need is community, not so much the religious stuff. Ive had 58 years to observe her fruit, and, while not perfect, she has proven generally consistent and trustworthy. January 19, 2016 Subscribe to Podcast What's in this session? I guess I mean that a person, on his or her own, cant do it without God working it out in that person. Harvest Bible Chapel Fayetteville. Those who are truly qualified (I think) know they are so in need of Gods favor to consistently live that out and are only barely qualified by what God has already done in them to that point. Well played. So why not allow comments? I find it very comforting to know that Jesus entered into a world that was very similar to what we now face: Religion had become a caricature of what God desired, and Jesus gently called people to follow him, rather than fear men. They kept +/-$170,000 in credit card payment from campers in the general fund and showed it as revenue. You could cold feet and released a scaled-back version instead. Nice list. Today, CBS Chicago featured Former Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonald Fired Their strong Christian beliefs led Scott and Marsha Thompson to volunteer at Harvest Bible Chapel, and donate more than $72,000 over the course of several years. The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. I dont know, Ken. Harvest Bible Chapel has fired its founder and senior pastor James MacDonald following years of controversial behavior, financial scandal and allegations of bullying and intimidation. Since I hate group think, we did not go. Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. Church Discipline If only we would listen to what Lewis was saying, we might avoid these bullies going way back who latch onto Christianity because of all the naive fools who are suckers for the Gantry/MacDonald Schick. What are sheep to do? That being said, I would think there is great value in making this public: as a warning for potential future victims of James MacDonald. Every believer has a part! Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. But you could change the future by using your failure for good. Ken F (aka Tweed): Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. Harvest needs to close because there as a beacon to the rest of the world as to what happens when talent trumps the grace of God so feeely given to us in repentance and a broken heart. its, like, the top christianese word that means so many different abstract things (depending on whos using the it) that it sort of means nothing anymore. The place is not worth saving. He was evidently so invested in making the Dramatic Point and leaving a Big Impression that I dont think he considered anyone else at that moment. Women's Bible Study. But that tends to require some kind of a hierarchy where some subset of the larger group comes up with stated or unstated norms and consequences for violating the norms. I remember it vividly because our child was very, very deeply disturbed and upset, AS WAS I. I had not ever seen the movie, nor intended to ever see it. The church (ecclesia) had little say in eldership or pastor. In the entire New Testament, the word only turns up once in the singular, 4th in a list of 5 useful gifts or roles (not official offices, near as I can tell) in Ephesians 4. us gray hairs, unfortunately, have experienced allot (hence gray hair), and the funny thing is that while technology progresses, human behavoir really does not change. And who appoints the elders (Disciples are no longer with us) if every church is autonomous? Sometimes sincerely wrong. Pastor showed the torture and crucifixion scene to the whole church. into playing a role in a conspiracy they do not even grasp. Wartburgers, perhaps they are coming to a church near you! He is currently Director of Media at Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, where he directed the award-winning short film "The Ride" and is currently developing multiple feature films. not violent Dallas, I have news for you. Gateway is the church that planted Driscolls new The Trinity Church in Scottsdale and they are the ones transferring him cash each year since to keep it afloat and charging that to Global Missions expense. I believe that if I hadnt been a strong donor, I would not have been considered and wouldnt have vaulted through Harvest leadership over more deserving peers. Dan Claassen Dee fully admits Hall scares her. Spend a moment praying to God before you begin reading. Accept that and use this springboard given by God to be the leader God always intended you to be. If you believe you have been financially defrauded, we want to hear from you. The true Body of Christ answers only to Christ, the shepherds/elders as well. Dallas, you have a lot to learn about life, and perhaps a lot to learn about the One Who spoke of whispers in the inner rooms being shouted from rooftops. The only church Fred has ever worked for his Harvest. The company typically gets sick and diessometimes quickly and sometimes suddenlybut it dies. That dog dont hunt. Trust in Jesus and his completed work is what makes one a child of God. Dallas Jenkins is the creator, director and co-writer of The Chosen, which in addition to being the first multi-season series about the life of Christ is also the most successful media crowdfund of all time. Its a modern proverb that in organizations characterized by power differentials, mistreatment flows downhill. Conversational-type sermons, contemporary worship music, come-as-you-are. . You are wrong on that point.The NT writers do make the point that there should be payment and encourage readers to do so. Lowlandseer: The elders [PRESBUTEROS] who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder [PRESBUTEROS] and a witness of the suffering of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed; shepherd [POIMEN] the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers [EPISKOPOS], not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly. (1 Peter 5:1-2). TS00: I find it very comforting to know that Jesus entered into a world that was very similar to what we now face: Religion had become a caricature of what God desired, and Jesus gently called people to follow him, rather than fear men. I say run. . I have to admit that Philippians 1 often comes to mind as I look at these mega-messes the American church is in. I can only imagine what was said as explanation, particularly as my spouse (still blindly loyal) remained much longer than I, until our children put up a united appeal to leave. that exploited the public of Harvest Bible Chapel (the profits of which you enjoyed and benefited from). It seems fairly common that if the truly informed Reformed do not return to their faith in a God who loves all men they eventually end up atheists. How many disasters do we need to see before people ask legitimate questions? Dallas Jenkins (born July 25, 1975) is an American film and television director, writer and film producer. Harvest Bible Chapel began meeting the Rolling Meadows High School building. Ken F (aka Tweed): The history of church offices is a bit more complicated. His new incognito Floridian Santa Claus look wont stop this. Im a witness that almost everything you re reading and hearing is true.. They been negotiating a retirement package before all the properties foreclose and theres no more cash! TS00: Nothing is more dangerous than a tyrant who genuinely believes in his own false mission. They deserve each other. LLS, honest question in all of these elder rule setups Ive ever seen, there is no mechanism at all for pew peons to do as you note and hold elders accountable for anything. Years ago when I was experiencing a dark period spiritually someone said to me, Hang onto God! In response without thinking these words came out of my mouth (and I cant help but think it was the Holy Spirit speaking), I cant hang onto God right now but He will hang onto me. I AM GOD AND YOU ARE GOD AND EVERYTHING THAT GROKS IS GOD TOGETHER! WHERE TO FIND US. But they do eventually turn. They are crumbling under their current debt load that FRED saddled them with; still he brags. I was there (our kids went there for 2 too long years) and it was unreal what went on during and after that incident. No wonder why Harvest is in such a mess with leaders like you. Didnt Dallas or is there another Jenkins son? My name is on all my posts and frankly I find your whining annoying. Sadly, I was guilty of the same in my day, taking the word of the pastor that those who left us were never one of us. You think youre justified at all in bristling in obvious irritation that your letter, which is apparently the rest of the story truth about this very public figure, got out of your control and hit the public sphere? etc. What makes you think you get to excuse yourself from the table? I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. Max: Friend: What bothers me about the megas is not just the bad theology and oppression, but the sheer size. As shortages in food and hygiene items started to grow in the Chicago community as well as widespread layoffs, Harvests Compassion ministry expanded. I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. The too big to fail driver kicks in and makes church leaders think and do things they might not otherwise. humble. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? I dont blame the Thompsons. where leaders humbly look around for those whom they can help, trying to be the last, not the first, putting their reputations, careers, and lives on the line if necessary That is because genuine relationships among people are an existential threat to the cult. But your comment proves you are doing exactly what you oppose. Personally, I call bull. Hey, if you look at JMACs Instagram he has a pic from fall of 2018 praising Mark Driscolls new book? Power provides for itself and money and sex. all of this is deeply regrettable. Here are some fun and easy strategies to make the most of every moment of your Bible study. Thats not the same as authoritarian of course but there are lots of verses warning against such behaviour and other selfish motives. The only reason there is a belief Jesus ministry was three years is because Johns gospel notes three Passovers. Wow. Everyone who is of the Truth, who is a friend of the Truth and belongs to the Truth, hears and listens carefully to My voice. (Jesus, John 18:37). This, along with the embracing of the whole seeker-friendly, mega-church model caused us to leave the church and people we loved, difficult as it was to explain. More leaders must take a stand and shine the light of truth. To me, this type of service is more authentic than so many of the others out there. You dont even have to be a tyrant to fall for that scheme of the devil. I still believe that Jesus lived and the NT is reliable. The Chosen is similar to Risen, the excellent faith -based film that . God has shown great favor and grace to Harvest Bible Chapel, allowing us to plant churches, host in thriving mens, womens events, and student gatherings, and creating ministries centering around outreach in our communities. When the Elders terminated James, the named only three sins (abuse, domineering behavior, and inappropriate language) that did not reflect the entirety of the content between all of the statements. What do you make of Luke? Harvest Bible Chapel is an evangelical Christian megachurch in Rolling Meadows, Illinois. "Do Theologians LIke Russell Moore Ever Apologize for Theological Blunders of the Past?" Lowlandseer: The NT writers frequently warn that false teachers, wolves, charlatans will enter the church to lead people astray; others are already there and will eventually show their true colours. Do you mean it was given to those elders who assisted in helping JMac continue on with his antics? The Elgin Campus held their first service in September 2004 with over 800 in attendance and has become the church home to more than 1000 worshipers every week, as well as the home of our Christian school. My comment as Amy kept not going through so I asked a family member whos previously posted successfully here to try using their account and they posted only half the comment because they thought maybe it was too long. I couldnt post that letter due to my absolute disgust at the depths to which MacDonald has sunk. Jenkins has produced many TV series and films. Dallas Jenkins stood with his arms crossed, facing the sunrise, a swath of orange clouds brushing the blue-gray mountains and yellow sky. I just found out about it a few minutes ago. A group began meeting and praying together in 2011. Both the Rolling Meadows and Elgin Campuses started food drives for the community to gather and distribute resources during the pandemic. Im becoming increasingly wary of the megachurch model. Im certainly not an Apostle chosen by the hand of Jesus as Paul was nor a prophet, or a son of a prophet. The present situation has for me the feel of exile and diaspora in the intertestamental period. Dallas was complicit in this, and hes still complicit in attempting to hide the truth. Of course, Im a few miles from SEBTS and JD Greears church is on every street corner, along with all the boys at SEBTS who dont want to leave the area so there are popup churches in every strip mall. Dallas Jenkins: Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. This resource is better: https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. 1 Peter 4:14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. but also why it doesnt seem to happen in the institution. I suspect that all of this is true, and more. Its also possible it wasnt a continuous period of teaching, that there were times when they all had to go to work because they had families to support. Run away from any self-conceived leader who does not strive to live this way. Born in Dallas and growing up in Little Rock, . bad things will happen to them, In January, Gateway held a Pastors School Seminar inside Driscolls church that was all about Church Governance. Although, in a few places in Scripture he paused to advise us that he was speaking about a matter offering his opinion rather than what God was saying. . Apparently, many pastors have opted to preach the gospel for the wrong reasons .. to toss out the name of Jesus now and then while they work their deception to benefit themselves. That set-up is far from the Biblical model of doing church and is a recipe for disaster, especially when it reaches mega-status. What religion is Harvest Church? The teenage years are an awesome time to grow in Christ. sober-minded Its ok to admit more of you need to to completely clear the air. As Lauren Diagle says it so very well: Im losing my religion/ To find You/ Im losing my religion, and finding something new/ Cause I need something different/ And different looks like You/. Whats chilling is you can still see the cult hold harvest has on him and others as he desribes his felling in the beginning of the letter. It wasnt all self-interest; they actually thought that good was being accomplished in spite of the bad conduct behind the scenes. 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