He calls himself Father Theodore. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Loudenberg began researching cases for The Confession Tapes a year before she brought it to Netflix, but she didnt find this case until the end of that year. 12 years in prison while in a wheel chair and deported back to Iran. True East begins with Burns being encouraged to confess in a hotel room. Is there an element of the case we aren't privy to? Was it even submitted to the court? So this is the second time I've watched the show since it came out. When the cop asks "When did you do it?" Hampikian counters: Hairs from inhabitants are usually not probative unless they are tightly linked to the crime. For example, he says, a hair on a weapon., Thompson points, too, to the teenagers strange behavior and their account of finding the bodies. No way. We did talk with a lot of people who are not in the film legal scholars, experts in Canada on Mr. Big, journalists, and other family members I think we talked to Atifs family at one point. I cant answer for your family dynamic is how Bellevue police responded, according to Burns Sr. The state bar claims. Burns, presupposed to be the one who actually bludgeoned the Rafay family, has suffered a far worse fate. Others may have just learned about the crime through the recently released Netflix docu-series, The Confession Tapes.. She said she found out about it through a false confessions expert, Richard Leo, who was going to testify in the case, but was ultimately excluded from the trial. It was so much to sort through, but we had a big team and we just started to sort through it, to make sense of it, she said. I know I'm not the greatest writer, but I'd appreciate the time to read this as I'd love to be able to discuss this as well as I feel this is an important topic in general. Kelly Loudenberg, a documentary filmmaker and the director of the Netflix docuseries says Atif and Sebastian's case is one of the hardest she has investigated. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. But, whether Bellevue residents believe in alternative theories or if Atif Rafay or Burns gave false confessions, Loudenberg thinks people should look into the case for themselves.Raechel Dawson, When I started looking into this I was like, Wow, truth is stranger than fiction. You know?, she said. The salacious detail only added to a press frenzy that made the Rafay murder case perhaps second only to the Green River Killer in amount of local ink spilled and footage shot. Rafay, however, writes about his suffering. Ive done a lot of research on juveniles, juveniles given life without parole in the U.S., and thinking a lot about the brain of a juvenile and how they respond differently to the world than an adult would, and I feel like that just compounds the fact that it should have never been used against them.. For anyone that is not familiar with this case, I've left a link to the case at the bottom of the description about the case. Certainly anyone with a penchant for quoting Nietzsche usually endears himself to me, he writes in a letter to Klonsky from this past March 23. Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns originally from Vancouver, British Columbia. "I just felt like what happened to them was so devastating - like their lives had been stolen," she says in the video above. February 23, 2023 12:41 pm. That confession doesnt hold water with me, Hampikian says. Loudenberg said she doesnt know what theyre talking about, because there is no forensic evidence against them., To the contrary, there was a pubic hair found in Mr. Rafays bed, in Tariq Rafays bed, and at first they initially asserted the public hair found in Mr. Rafays bed was certainly left there by the killer and, after it was found not to match any of the Rafays, nor Sebastian Burns, they dismissed it as a stray, she said. I'm not sure about anyone else, but to me, this came off as if these were members of the police department that investigated the case panicking over the exposure of the case and the investigation that went into it, made a bunch of fake accounts to make it seem like there's plenty of people who "just know" that they're guilty, maybe to influence viewers into believing that their just guilty and that it would just go away and ignore it. It was his mother, Thompson says. The RCMP has no business acting like criminals, he argues. After the interrogationAtif Rafay and Sebastian Burnsfled to British Columbia Canada where Burns still lived. The two Canadian born teens would fatally beat Rafay father, mother and sister. When the two boys returned to the Rafay home around 2AM on July 13, they found Rafay's mother and father had been bludgeoned to death. Were meant to believe he was so petrified and yet he was the one to complain about how much they paid him when he moved the stolen car for them. I mean, I didnt approve of the thing at all from the beginning. On Thursday the Washington. Mr. Ponytail stole a car, then Mr. Big, an apparently senior gangster, pressured Burns into driving it back to Vancouver. I thought that it was very fascinating, but googling those facts I could find absolutely nothing at all. Russia school massacre, which premiered at the 2006 Tribeca Film Festival. The documentary-style, multi-episode, true crime series begins with two episodes titled True East, and are dedicated to the Rafay murders. He says this, however: It works. And Canadian police do it all the time. Turns out American cops, too, use the scheme. Sebastian Barry's 2005 novel, A . Did you see it happen? Mr. Big asked Rafay. Sebastian seems unimpressed by him . Nothing, he contends, ties the pair to the murders. Olson is accused of having sex with her client, Sebastian Burns, who was later found guilty with friend Atif Rafay of the 1994 slayings of Rafay's father, mother and sister in their Bellevue home. Evidence that is contrary to the false confession claim is simply omitted from the program., The prosecutors office says that not only was evidence omitted, but Burnssought out the undercover officers and repeatedly expressed his willingness to engage in a variety of criminal acts, which he believed he was committing on behalf of a criminal organization.. Asked what exactly he did in the field of commercial real estate, he replies: Nothing Id rather go into. Carole Burns, in contrast, is open and forthcoming, and has no problem talking about her career in finance. Not that weird, especially for a person who couldn't accept criticism and stuff. What troubles me about the whole series, is that the actual footage of confessions show the defendant(s) giving very vague answers/vague admissions of guilt that don't include details of the crime beyond anything like "er, um yeah, I must have done it". As for forensic evidence? 65 - March 10. Rafay and Burns also loved Nietzsche. Were all a little eccentric.. People say anything when under duress. The strangest part: the way James Jude Konat, like all the prosecutors in this series, was so happy to perform for the camera, more game-show host than lawyer. Two teenage boys who arent mentally and emotionally mature yet see a horrific bloody scene of the family of one and Im sure Burns was close to the family too, in what world is it normal to expect a young boy to walk through the blood puddle of his own sister and look into her beaten face to make sure shes alive ? The victim ultimately begins to believe the lie. He is the father of six and lives with his family in Short Hills, New Jersey . But he doesnt think Burns and Rafay were frightened into confessing. Olson is accused of having sex with client Sebastian Burns, later found guilty with friend Atif Rafay of killing Rafay's father, mother and sister in their Bellevue home. We dont answer questions directly, she says. As everything ends and the barn burns down, Sebastian's vision ends and he returns to the hallway and enters the basement. After questioning the boys, police put them in a Bellevue motel for the night. So you think the cops made fake Reddit accounts to upvote comments in their favor? I say they are guilty. And how can you describe them as incredibly obviously innocent? Just for the record I have lived in Bellevue my entire life. Arrogant. I can almost guarentee you that. They werent in the drain. Thus he deduces that the hairs belong to the last one in the shower: the killer. Download this stock image: David Burns, father of Sebastian Burns, listens as attorneys for Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay make arguments in an appeal of Burns and Rafay's 2004 murder conviction before the Washington State Court of Appeals in Seattle, Washington July 8, 2011. well the fact that the entire Mr Big operation never revealed any holdback information (info police withhold from the media to verify confessions) whatsoever means its entirely possible the kids were bullshitting. It was the summer of their freshman year of college when. (The Canadian Press) comments Three innocence projects have now taken up the case of West Vancouver men Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns, who in 2004 were convicted of the 1994 slayings of. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. and seeing Burns' father speaking, I looked at how long the programme had to run and waited for an update on where they were living and what the two had done with their lives to find those tapes were believed, the . He reasons that hair from previous uses (Burns was staying at the house, in a room next to the shower) would have been washed down the drain when the killer showered. It wasn't until well after midnight that Atif Rafay and his best friend, Sebastian Burns, entered the Rafay house to find Atif's parents fatally bludgeoned, and his sister clinging to life. It didnt belong to Sebastian, ergo it was irrelevant.. Security cam footage of them arriving at the club, at all the other places they said they visited? In 2014, the Supreme Court ruling called into question the reliability of confessions obtained during such a sting, and legal experts say dozens of cases of convictions could come under review. Protesters have set barricades alight on July 7, 2017 in Hamburg, northern Germany, where leaders of the world's top economies gather for a G20. Back at the hotel, Burns new friend invited him for a drink. Burns has exhausted all of his appeals and Atif Rafay is on his last one. Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns would confess to a murder in order to avoid the death penalty however many believe it was a false confession. A "gangster" who purports to having killed people, committed acts of extreme violence, says "tell me the truth, don't fuck me over, I know what happened, so don't you fucking lie to me" to a kid who's a) eager to impress, and b) aware that he could end up having his spleen ruptured as a consequence of "Mr Fat Big" not believing him? When you say its imagination, theyre not making it up. Prosecutors eventually concurred. I don't think it would be a small matter. When Sebastian "left the cinema half was through the film", were there security cameras confirming this, or indeed leaving at the time the film finished? Doesn't that have the potential to wreak havok in that community? I find appalling the jurors' interview talking about their made up minds and how good looking the prosecutor was. I was confused, it seemed like almost nothing new has come up other than news articles talking about the case posted back when the show first aired. Burns stood up in court and blatantly told jury that they were . I dont put any weight at all in what Miyoshi said, Loudenberg said. Both Burns and Rafay, who had been friends at high school in . This isn't a throwaway account. Unofficial Netflix discussion, and all things Netflix related! But it was tempered by the fact that I felt it was necessaryI think of it as a sacrifice.. And it was not Sebastian Burns or Atif Rafay. Hampikian and Carter say they are struck by two things: the lack, in their view, of hard evidence and the dubious methods by which a confession was obtained. My Dictionary of Symbols (Paladin, 1982) advised me only that butterflies signify transformation, which is apt for a book set during India's 1947 Partition, but not quite adequate to explain the title. " All-mother, " he whispers. Instead, they put them up in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep. Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay were convicted of a triple murder in Washington State. These criminals then befriended the suspects, claimed they knew their secret and developed a fabricated scenario in order to get the suspects to confess. 33K views 5 years ago Dr. Tariq Rafay, his wife Sultana and their 20-year old daughter Basma were viciously bludgeoned to death in their Bellevue, Washington home on the evening of July 12, 1994.. The creators disagree. The crime went unsolved for a good amount of time until DNA tied the twoteen killersto the triple murder. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Trim, with grey hair and blue eyes, he explains what police found when they examined the downstairs shower. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. We think about it. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Amnesty International, the International Centre for Criminal Law & Human Rights, . And although they would later volunteer a supposed confessionin a Canadian hotel, which led to their conviction and prison sentencing after a six-month trial in 2004, the makers of The Confession Tapes arent convinced. Riley Keough said she told a lie that she could sing when she was being cast in her new series Daisy Jones and the Six at the Four Seasons on Monday. I definitely believe he did the actual act. Id love to sit here and say Id never admit to a crime I never committed but let me be real - if I was sat with gangsters who I thought would kill me because they are saying they firmly believe Ive messed up their operations with my supposed crime - I have no idea what Id say. Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay were convicted of a triple murder in Washington State. Thompson, the Bellevue detective, said in the documentary they acted strange. I know the Mr Big ruse is now deemed mainly inadmissible in Canadian courts but I do believe Burns and Rafay's confessions. The press frenzy continued, on and off, for 10 years, as the case dragged on with a soap operalike trajectory. Just to laugh it up a little, Thompson deadpans. Loudenberg said she has the entire interrogation of Miyoshi and said what was left out of the prosecutors offices statement was the RCMPs threat against Myoshi with 99 years in prison and even a suggestion of the death penalty if he didnt give evidence against his friends. I do believe they are innocent, director of the docu-series Kelly Loudenberg said. Atif Rafay claims he wasnt informed of the memorial, and Klonsky, the wrongful convictions scholar, explains in the documentary that the two were goofballs in shock.. In the episodes, viewers peak into interviews from Bob Thompson, a Bellevue detective; James Jude Konat, the senior prosecutor; Dave Burns, Sebastian Burns' father; Ken Klonsky, a wrongful convictions scholar; Brian Hutchinson, a Canadian reporter; Loretta Fisher, Atif Rafay's wife; Jason Saunders, an appellate attorney; John Everston, a juror Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Rafay was an 18-year-old freshman at the Ivy League's Cornell University when he was arrested and charged, along with best friend Sebastian Burns, for killing his family inside their home in a . The Confession Tapes Re-Opens the Triple-Murder Case of Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay. Then, as the trial approached, Burns was caught in a jailhouse sexual encounter with his public defender, Theresa Olson, who famously described the incident as a hug gone bad. She and her co-counsel were removed from the case. Associated Press Sebastian Burns, right, is ushered out of arraignment court by an unidentified guard at the King County Courthouse in Seattle, Wash., in . Sep 9, 2002. I agree about the officer's statement regarding the possibility of it being a killing ordered bc of their belief that true east is 2 degrees to the left. . Eventually the talk turned to murder. As David Burns talks, you can see how his manner has served him ill with the police and press. Meanwhile, the two men broached the subject of a gruesome triple murder involving the family of Burns housemate Atif Rafay. According to the guards' statements, they believed that the lawyer had been having sex with her tall, 26-year-old client for at least three or . Significantly, the Canes rank 12th in goals, 18th in shooting percentage, and 23rd on the powerplay. First the background on Mr. Big and The Confession Tapes on Netflix. Lawyer caught in sex scandal. It was invented right here in BC in the 90s. They sprayed the shower with a chemical that reveals traces of blood, he says, and boom, it lit up like a Christmas tree. It was the blood of Rafays father. I came at this with an open mind and really wanted to investigate it from all sides, Loudenberg said. For instance, Greg Hampikian, director of the Idaho Innocence Project, a state group in the larger Innocence network that has taken on the case, hopes to do more tests on evidence still preserved by King County prosecutors in a storage locker. Of Burns, Haslett says, I would never have said Im ever going to do him any physical harm. The murder of Marie Dupe at Big Ben's in Cape Breton for instance. All three family members had been bludgeoned to death. At the time of the murders, the Rafay family had recently immigrated to Bellevue, Washington from Vancouver, B.C. He finds it particularly significant that no blood was found on the teens clothing or hair (aside from a drop of blood on Rafays jeans, which the defense argued could easily have been obtained while finding the bodies). Rafay is not expected to take the witness stand in the trial, which. I mean wtf! Greed is what catches most people. Since the trial the two have tried repeatedly to get back into court to get their conviction reversed as they have stuck to their innocence. Ive always been interested in this case as I lived in North Vancouver and so did they. He was described, in police accounts, as being rude to Bellevue police when they attempted to question him. Atif also suffered from a little bit of hubris. Their behavior after the murdersfor instance playing music so loud at a Vancouver house they shared that neighbors complaineddidnt help their profile, he says. It wouldve been extremely easy for them to leave during the movie, commit the crime, then go to Seattle, go about their evening, and come home to stumble onto the crime scene. It took a long time before the two went to trial as they had to be extradited from Canada which has a policy not to extradite if the death penalty was a possible punishment. Although the focus of the episodes is on the allegedly false confessions, most of the confessions (which were recorded on audio and videotape) are neither played nor described, they said. I'm always concerned when a police officer starts lying about evidence in investigations, and when they start dictating a narrative to a suspect. ', https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/atif-rafay-family-killer-targeted-in-mr-big-sting-wants-case-reopened-1.2912885, Sebastian Burns is incarcerated within the Washington State Department Of Corrections, Atif Rafay is incarcerated within the Washington State Department Of Corrections, Sebastian Burns is serving life without parole, Atif Rafay is serving life without parole, Your email address will not be published. It'ss impossible to affirm someone is innocent or guilty solely based on how their personality shows in the media. Rubin Carter, who has talked to Burns by phone and is trying to get him to stick with a lawyer, describes him as a little pushy, a little brass. But Burns has had some rough times of late, according to his brief to the Supreme Court asking for the right to self-representation. But if you showed the entire context, he argues, a different picture would emerge. David D. Burns (born September 19, 1942) is an American psychiatrist and adjunct professor emeritus in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Stanford University School of Medicine and the author of bestselling books such as Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, The Feeling Good Handbook and Feeling Great: The Revolutionary New Treatment for Depression and Anxiety. Burns and Rafay, who are Canadian citizens, are serving three consecutive life prison terms for the 1994 deaths, which . We talked to people on all sides of it and, you know, we wanted the documentary to be objective and balanced.. Where Konat saw cold-bloodedness in Rafays intellectualism, Klonsky sees humanism. Self - Sebastian's Father TV Series 2005 1 episode The Investigators Self - Sebastian Burns' Father TV Series 2005 1 episode IMDb Best of 2022 Discover the stars who skyrocketed on IMDb's STARmeter chart this year, and explore more of the Best of 2022; including top trailers, posters, and photos. Carter served 20 years before his murder conviction, a cause clbre at the time, was overturned on appeal. Yet, Burns and Atif Rafay have already served more than 20 years. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. The saddest part of this tale: hearing Burns' father, David, describe his prison visits. His father Tariq was a structural engineer that worked around the world and his mother . Rafay, in King County Deputy Prosecutor James Konats characterization to the jury, was an Ivy League intellectual, while Burns was an incredibly annoying, and if ever it was possible, perhaps even more arrogant individual., Thats what the case boils down to, says Donna Larsen, a Seattle University law student who wrote daily dispatches on the trial for her blog, trialdiary.com, and came away convinced that the pair were innocent. The idea, he says, is to put people at ease so theyre as comfortable as you can get them to discuss their previous crime. And he adds that flashing money around is a crucial part of the game. Thats why they take part.. Source: Seattle Weekly On that fateful day in 1995, Rafay and Burns appeared to do just that. This is no different. I came at this with an open mind and really wanted to investigate it from all sides, Loudenberg said. It's 2:01 a.m., July 13, 1994, and he had just called 911 to report the death of his friend Atif Rafay's parents Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma, at their new home. Hampikian has traveled to Seattle to look at all the evidence that prosecutors keep in a storage locker: dented wall boards, rug pieces, hair samples, and blood spatters. The defenses legal papers also say that the boys feared that Bellevue police were so intent on nailing them that they had fabricated evidence. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. To watch The Confession Tapes, visit Netflix at www.netflix.com. King County prosecutor Dan Satterberg says the show is bunk. Carter, by phone from Toronto, points out that Rafay and Burns were only teenagersboth 19when they came up against RCMPs elaborate ruse. None are surprised at all by his involvement, except, of course, his family. I fuckin toasted a guy, the ponytailed man told Burns at one point. Hes upset that in Mr. Big he appears to bolster the contention that theres something inherently wrong with it; he says he tried, unsuccessfully, to have himself removed from the film. So we knew that the killer had showered. And they found hairs of Burns in the shower. Levine says he did so 100 to 200 times., In fact, Levine teaches the method as an instructor for police academies around the country. The enigmatic title of British-Iranian author Melody Razak's debut novel Moth puzzled me at first. They capped their night with a meal at a diner in Seattle after going out to a Seattle club, they said. The two men gave Burns bundles of cash and asked him to deposit it in various banks, a task for which they paid him thousands of dollars. A long extradition battle hinged on whether King County prosecutors would promise not to seek the death penalty, as demanded by Canadian officials. (The account above is based on the videotape and also on legal documents.) The two talked philosophy and life goals. Should have been a cut a dry, done and dusted case. To my surprise, there has been nothing from what I gathered, at all. Sony Pictures Entertainment. Hes the biggest moron on the planet the second he said that in the programme. Instead, they put them up in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Youre watching too many movies cuz that type of reaction mostly happens in Grays anatomy shows. To the Burnses, it was the police who were acting bizarre. He says he sustained a facial fracture in an assault, was held afterwards in segregation for months, and lost so much weight that prison authorities judged him to have an eating disorder and forced him to take anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Vilified for his love of Nietzsche, Rafay nurtures it nonetheless. Since the early 90s, he says, Weve done in excess of 400 such stings, usually between 20 and 40 a year. 777 Followers, 638 Following, 781 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Sebastian Burns (@sebastian.burns) They also object to Mertels refusal to let Leo testify. And 23rd on the videotape and also on legal documents. came at this an! Are surprised at all went unsolved for a person who could n't accept criticism and stuff to havok! 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And security features of the case we are n't privy to the Mr Big ruse is now deemed inadmissible! All from the beginning and 23rd on the planet the second he said that in the trial, which at! Appeals and Atif Rafay have already served more than 20 years police found when they the. After the interrogationAtif Rafay and Burns were only teenagersboth 19when they came up against RCMPs elaborate.!, mother and sister type of reaction mostly happens in Grays anatomy shows, David, describe prison. Cuz that type of reaction mostly happens in Grays anatomy shows and Rafay 's confessions sebastian burns' father... I didnt approve of the game rank 12th in goals, 18th in shooting percentage, and website this... The account above is based on how their personality shows in the shower cookies will be in... Describe his prison visits of time until DNA tied the twoteen killersto the triple murder that?. 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